[pnpgm] Game Update #109 - File #606 - Party heads down

J Hooten jhooten at binary.net
Fri Jan 30 11:20:20 CET 2009

<That is a problem with PnP treasures, the wide variations in price for 
items. Thus value for share depends on where you could sell it. But is 
the Armor really worth 7500? PnP Plate is expensive to start with 
because it takes a long time to make, now consider that a mage is 
supposed to make that himself. What is that time worth? Then its elven 
making it rarer etc. So yup its damn expensive, so much so who could 
afford it. And that is the problem, its unlikely you will find a buyer 
on the world! Maybe extraplaner elvish royals could afford it? And 
adventure all its own. I still think some rough value needs to be placed 
on it and based on what it could be sold for if we tried. But that would 
be much lower. Is that really fair? Someone could take it to resell 
elsewhere for a huge profit. But thats true for everything if someone 
wants to play merchant to that extreme. Other games assume you can get 
25%-50% of sell price in a reasonable amount of time, so that is a fair 
price in general. Cash is cash, magic is worth what it could sell for in 
a short time. But without much effort the maximum value cannot be gotten 
on much of the items and thus the armor is the major item. So for this 
extreme case its very hard to be fair. I would let him have the item and 
owe some reasonable amount for it, or use it til it could be sold. BUT 
do not forget possession of the armor could cause major conflict with 
elves or others for its extreme rarity. And a non elf wearing it could 
have political problems. It could even be a cultural 'treasure' for even 
more problems. So once more an Alfar seems the only one who should wear 
it and trying to sell it could be a problem... A GM could turn that into 
the next adventure if we are not careful. No matter how its handled it 
can cause trouble which is why this effects play. Personally I always 
thought plate cost way too much in the system. You can hire it made far 
cheaper than it costs and Dwarf or Elf make should not be worth 40 or 60 
times just like magic is not worth 100 times. You can hire a 20th level 
mage to make plate cheaper than buying it normally and have enchanted? 
So yes the elf plate is worth a few hundred but not many thousand gold 
unless elves would need to be forced to make it or other difficulty and 
then it would carry a stigmata for more troubles. But not my world so 
cant say true economics and political pricing. I personally think items 
should be valued based on time and material costs and mana is a material 
for this. The mages time is worth so much and his mana is worth some 
factor based on Mel in general and maybe more based on recovery time. 
Heavy mana use could take a long time to get back. The other guides 
(Mel+El)*something does this a little. Mel silver per mana could be 
close? Maybe a bit more than that, needs some test items for 
comparisons. Maybe someone will run some tests for approx item price 
versus mana needed to make and see.>

<Sorry should not have wandered so far off course. In summary, if Armor 
was not so super high value then its not such a big deal. Since most 
magic I have seen priced in our current game were fairly low priced, 
that seems more likely. Then the other game effects make the item worth 
keeping in the party and used with Arawn owing some future cash for it 
and not crippling amounts. BUT even if it is high priced it may make 
little difference if no one can buy it since it is thus worthless! LOL 
or was that priceless? Same effect. So the result is nearly the same 
with all methods, its best if he keeps it but how much should he owe? 
Thats what the vote will really determine as I see it.>

<So overall it becomes more important to determine what is a fair 
price/value for items to use in the shares or it all falls apart. Fair 
sell value should be what can be gotten in a reasonable time trying to 
sell it. If its hard to sell then that value will drop. If someone wants 
to purchase a hard to sell item for the discount and try to sell it 
themselves that is fair for that reason. They are short cash for some 
time as its tied up and thus they have less other equipment etc. 
Eventually they will make a profit but was it worth the delay? Yes 
player merchants can make a fortune but so do the ones actively spending 
time doing other work instead of searching for a buyer. It may all 
balance out anyway. And this valuation is determined inside the party in 
actuality. The mages would have a rough idea on magic item values, other 
people may know other items. For us the GM is doing that work since we 
do not know his rules on pricing. But you get the idea. Its always a 
gamble, you may end up selling for a loss when hoarding items and 
suddenly needing cash. The next problem is those items you cant price 
accurately. Art and rare books vary a lot, well many things do in PnP. 
If the party guesses wrong and someone takes the item the gamble could 
be quite a lot. This is another GM ruling on your skill identifying the 
items and your previous history of such. If you do not know, someone 
will be surprised. A shrewd buyer may rob you blind more than once 
before you find out. Thats where those contacts come in handy, finding 
more honest buyers. If people do not want to RP so much normally behind 
the scenes things then should they get to do so for those other items? 
Its a complex problem overall. Which to me means, if the share method is 
too hard to figure then it may not be worth using in this system. Just 
try to balance it out in play somehow.>

<Apologies for the long post, hope it helps? Maybe the GM will shoot me 

<Raban will go with where he is needed. If he ended up on the ground 
then he will stay there to help out. Frema may not be able to teleport 
with him and Raban knows that since there were issues with an expert 
teleporter. So even though he would like to stay with her it may not be 

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