[pnpgm] Ruling on Oblivion...

Schnockel dasandersx at comcast.net
Tue Apr 21 19:10:45 CEST 2009


I have a great idea...let's send someone to Oblivion and then build a solid 
pillar in that place and see what happens when he returns...sounds like 
fun...except for the volunteer.

heehee



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Scott Adams" <longshot at darktech.org>
To: "PBEM List" <pnpgm at abroere.xs4all.nl>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2009 11:57 PM
Subject: [pnpgm] Ruling on Oblivion...


>
>   Ok.  This subject of Oblivion could get way out of hand so I want
>   to address it in a separate file.  I can argue points in the PNP
>   mailing list if need be.  But I want to give my views on it then
>   give my ruling.  If you don't care anything about the Oblivion
>   subject-thread then ignore this post.
>
>   First, over the last decade in this game I've done like I do for every
>   player group I've had in the last 30 years.  Its a learning curve for
>   myself and for the players.  As groups get more powerful I tweak the
>   rules and get less lenient.  For example Adventure #1 I didn't care
>   about food or water.  Adventure 2 I did.  In first 2 I didn't care
>   much about horse encumbrance but now I do.  In first two adventures
>   I didn't care about item damage but from 3 on I did.  Rules change
>   and rules shift.  This is to improve play in various ways.  It helps
>   folks get acquainted with the game and with the style of play.  Also
>   as you guys get far far more powerful I have to balance it to the
>   good guys favor again.  Otherwise it would be a walk in the park
>   each time.  I'm a strong believer in Balance.
>
>   Now for this adventure more rules will be used like movement effects
>   from damage, trauma and some minor other ones I've not used before.
>
>   Now with that said let's look at the spell.
>
>   OBLIVION                 ALIGNMENT  Balance
>
>     The spell transports a specific victim within the caster's
> range to oblivion. He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until
> the duration ends. The Caster who sent him can recall him. The
> cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him.
>     While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the
> passage of time. When the Duration of the spell ends he returns
> to the place from which he was sent exactly as he was when he
> left. It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though
> years may have passed.
>     A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell. If the creature
> is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his MDV in
> resisting. If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the
> Caster goes to oblivion. He remains there until the Duration
> ends.
>
>
>   I'll take it apart line by line.
>
>   The spell transports a specific victim within the caster's range to
>   oblivion.
>
>   GM: 1) I can interpret that "transport" to a shift in existence or
>       dimension.  2) Oblivion can be a place or a non existence.
>
>   He ceases to exist in a meaningful sense until the duration ends.
>
>   GM: "cease" is a harsh word.  It could be a physics level term like
>       a black hole.  When you reach a certain point then you cease to
>       exist but are always technically everywhere in the universe on
>       a quantum level.  For Fantasy some feel its a niche hole.
>
>   The Caster who sent him can recall him.
>
>   GM: "recall" could in some ways mean that the GM can say "come back"
>       and poof he is back.  A bit vague there.
>
>   The cost to recall someone is twice that required to send him
>
>   GM: There you go have to expend mana or energy to recall him so
>       its a willful act that seems to be directed toward the gods
>       as all "mana" requests are in the mythos.
>
>   While a victim is in oblivion he is not affected by the passage of time.
>
>   GM: Seems straight forward.  But some can read this as cease to
>       exist on a normal "thinking" level or simply in the middle world.
>       Oblivion could be a upper world realm for example.  So why
>       can't the folks just be sent there?  No time passes and no
>       escape from this place.
>
>    When the Duration of the spell ends he returns  to the place from
>    which he was sent exactly as he was when he left.
>
>    GM: Here is the tricky part.  "from which he was sent".  Will
>        return to this :)
>
>    It will seem to him that he had a momentary blackout though years
>    may have passed.
>
>    GM: Hours or years.  In one culture punishment is 200 years in 
> Oblivion.
>        So this is well beyond the age of a person.  Ergo we must conclude
>        that maybe the spell remains even after the caster's death?
>        This seems only logical but then may mean the spell is tied to
>        a place or god and not a caster.
>
>    A Hit Point Limit applies with this spell.
>
>    GM: This seems to imply that a hit point limit is for living things.
>        Therefore does this mean objects can't be included?  It doesn't
>        say structure points or DR.  In pnp material life is DR damage
>        resistance.  So does this rule out items?
>
>    If the creature is larger, the amount of the excess is added to his
>    MDV in resisting.
>
>    GM: Makes sense.  But it doesn't put a size limit to a object.
>
>    If the result of the spell is Abysmal Failure the Caster goes to
>    oblivion.
>
>    GM: Make sense.  But one could read it as if he can stop the spell
>        could he do it from inside?  I'd say not.  The gods would not
>        like the punishment be that easy.
>
>    He remains there until the Duration ends.
>
>    GM: That cancels out the recall order so he can't just stop it.  Which
>        supports my comment.
>
>    DURATION     2 months (EL factor applies as a power)
>    RANGE        (EL+1)*2"
>
>    HIT POINT LIMIT (EL+1)*6
>
>    GM: Notice this formula.  Means 6 hits for EL0.  How many pcs have
>    that low or creatures.  One could reason that the spell is meant for
>    small things as a base not large things.  Even at a decent eL10 your
>    only talking 66 points which can't even trap a dragon.
>
>   Now, I did some more research...
>
> POTEH                                  Contact Level  9
>     Lord of Oblivion, Master of Forgetfulness, God of Forgotten Knowledge,
>     collector of things lost, Reader of Fate, Lord of the Unknown, Knower
>     of the Unknowable, the eternal void, Warden of the Forgotten Well,
>     dweller beyond the veil, Master of the Planes, Keeper of the
>     Unalterable
>
>    GM: Based on that I can infer Oblivion is a place not a thing.  The
>        person simply doesn't stop and poofs out.  He does go somewhere.
>        Likely based on the above to his realm.
>
>
>   Alex found this ...
>
> Book 2 p.32  OBLIVION   An Innate user of this spell using Energy Level
> rather than trained Casting Ability rolls Abysmal Failure - is the
> caster sent to Oblivion?  [No]
>
>
>  GM:  From some errata stuff.  Looks like Questions to Richard and not
>   sure if you answered or he did. But to me that denies
>   divine punishment.  :<
>
>
>  GM: Another interesting Oblivion keyword found was in the western lands.
>      A dragon has Oblivion innately through touch.
>
>  GM: Another search found is Sentinel Beast from v2  It however seems
>      to break general concepts of this rule.  Oblivion used by this
>      creature send the person d100 miles away from the target.  Thus,
>      this implies the oblivion can shift or the god protector of this
>      creature "allows" the target to be turned away for the SB's
>      protection.
>
>   Now the theory is to make Oblivion a big-bag-o-many-holdings.
>
>   Personally I despised the D&D version of the bag.  It was abused way
>   too much.  "Where is my sword..oh there...hey I found your sailboat
>   back here...Jo you need your wagon its still here too..."
>
>   I personally prefer brains over dependent skills and spells.  Role
>   playing is to me far more enjoyable than simply pushing a button and
>   getting something done or casting a spell.  We have all seen the
>   abuse spells like Time Travel (oh I'll go back and do the right path
>   to the gold), Wisdom/Knowledge (oh gee I don't need to think of that
>   puzzle I'll just download it from the gods), and other spells.  To
>   me using your brain is far more rewarding.
>
>   With that said....Panther is right where do you draw the line between
>   spell mechanics and science.  Fantasy and Science?  In the past I
>   have been lenient with the spell in that you can take stuff with
>   you and just release it.  At that point I didn't care.  But when
>   it comes to hiding magic items (a cheap way rather than using brains)
>   than it becomes more important.
>
>   Some the question is
>
>   1) Can you recall the person back where you currently are or back
>      where the spell was originally cast?
>   2) Can items be put into it
>   3) Can a box of held items be used?
>
>   Based on the above Oblivion is either a place or a non existent thing.
>   A pocket void.  A niche universe.  If we go with science it is a
>   niche universe, alternate dimension or other world.  If we bring
>   that out further we could consider string theory to be attached.
>   Based on the fantastical pnp universe and mythos and Poteh it should
>   be a place, a realm in the upper world.  A place where folks might
>   or might not be able to wander around but not escape.  It could
>   be a realm where even he might travel and find the person.  As to
>   the person ceasing to exist.  Maybe that is in the middle world but
>   not the upper world.  Once back he will have no memory of such things.
>   Being a god, and god of Oblivion, one could assume Poteth has rule
>   over the realm and can enter it at will. . If he found a person of
>   value or interest (or item).  He could interact with it.  This brings
>   a new aspect to the oblivion idea of balance.  Could also add spice
>   to things sent to Oblivion. :)
>
>   Based on the Sentinel beast's odd ability that implies the gods have
>   some ability to protect the beast.  Poteh just happens to be the
>   god of choice for this beast.  Therefore Richard must have felt that
>   Poteh has the ability to AFFECT the spell results.  Ergo my interaction
>   above should fit.  If I were to interpret the "return to the place"
>   where it was cast line I would have to conclude that it is where it
>   was cast.  The niche universe doesn't roam with you.  As to the whole
>   deck of a ship thing one could look at String Theory and assume
>   hyperspace, whitespace, niche universes and other dimensions are
>   attached to ours at the same "string" point.  If we go with that then
>   the deck of a ship is moot.  The planet may have moved in the universe
>   but the person returns back to the earth not to space.  On a simple
>   common sense term this fits for fantasy as well.  Personally I prefer
>   the spell be used at spot and not taken with you.  But seeing as the
>   S.B. can affect the parameters that seems to make me think.  One could
>   argue the anchor to the spell is attached to the caster.  That the
>   niche universe roams with the caster.  Based on this argument I will
>   allow it to travel though I personally think that could lead to
>   major abuse.  But I can balance that out.  The "anchor" is a mana
>   detectable presence and thus can be detected/senses.  As a permanent
>   oblivion ward might be attached to a building.  So even though you
>   might hide items there is still magic signatures around the caster.
>   This also means a trapped beast angry about to kill a caster would
>   also find the caster again at the duration if it travels with him.
>   So that adds a bit of danger spice. :)
>
>   Items are a bit more unclear.  Common sense say a person brings his
>   clothing with him.  Invisible, insubstantial seems to affect
>   items so common sense would say the spell can affect such items.  So
>   where do you draw the line? Clothing but not a wagon the person
>   is sitting on?  The hit point limit doesn't give much hope so
>   if one were to include items one must assume some size or value
>   limit.  So yes  items can be allowed.  But I'll have to come up
>   with some rules on that.  Magic items will clearly defend with their
>   MDV.  The exact rules I think I'll come up with privately a formula
>   on size or hit like point system.  A talisman might be easier than
>   say a full magical dragon armor suit.  So those rules I'll work up
>   on.  It might be that each item will have to be rolled for.  A box
>   theory still might resist the items inside. Think of it as Poteth
>   not wanting anti-his alignment items in his realm.
>
>   The box within a box or a Bag covering things is a clear trick.  But
>   I suspect size limits have to apply even on non magical items. One
>   simply can't poof a castle or wagon away at EL0.  Just seems way
>   too powerful for that.  (Think of the Dragon in the example for the
>   spell - too big).  So I'll apply some hidden rules on that as well.
>   It will have to be experimental.  Based on the whim of Poteth.
>   As you might get to EL10 maybe you could poof a wagon at that point.
>   This then also brings the issue of odd items like sand or water.
>   Since there is no people how will Poteth react to such use of the
>   spell for his realm?  Sand dirtying up his place?  Or an apple tree
>   suddenly popping up in his estate.  Not good if he hates apples.
>   So yes place items in a sack or box.  Try to poof it all at once. But
>   things inside can still defend against the spell likely if Poteth
>   feels it might annoy him.
>
>
>   Conclusion
>
>   1) Oblivion - Upper World Realm
>   2) Poteth maybe other gods could enter this realm interact with objects
>      and people in oblivion if so desired.
>   3) Poteth can affect spell results any or all spell parameters
>   4) The trapped person can travel with caster
>   5) Anchor to person is magic detectable
>   6) Items allowed in oblivion
>   7) Items will defend if magic against won't help unless intelligent
>   8) Poteth could affect item transport
>   9) Can use box/sack full of items with size or item value limits and
>      Poteth can affect such item transport
>
>
>  That should be good balance :)
>
>  Hey...an idea...if Poteth can send things 200 miles away for S.B.s'
>  maybe he could reverse it..send other things through the gate...hrmm
>
>  I shouldn't have read that SB entry :)
>
>   I will work on the item rules/mechanics during the cruise mentally
>   when I have time.
>
>
>   A clap of thunder sounds as the god's gavel pounds down....
>
>   So say I....
>
>
>
>
>


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