[PnP] Elemental Arts...

Tobie Bonahoom bonahoom at hotmail.com
Wed Sep 30 10:18:24 CEST 2009

I have been thinking on how to add my 2 copper to this.

The best way I have thought about is that if the player wants to create a permanent pact, they have to be willing to give a part of themselves up with it. Almost like the element takes something of the caster that insures they are just as loyal. Now this does not mean it could not be violated. The caster could decide to end the pact or do something that would cause the element to backlash and destroy this part, thus causing harm to the caster usually.

The other way I have done it, is to require the caster to be apart of the element, or at least have it with them at all times (yes, no matter where they are or are doing). Now this can be as simple as caring water from the lake you summoned at or earth, however that is where the GM gets to have lots of fun. Does the person have to do a ritual everyday with the element and if they don't they build up a bad 'Karma' issue with it, or do thieves come to steal it, not because it is valuable, because it is something that no one else has stolen.

Just some other thoughts. Being permanent can cause issues in my mind too as the element might summon the caster to them for a mission even (if it is powerful enough of course, though wouldn't a caster want to have a major elemental on their side?)

Hope that gives another idea.


> Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 02:30:25 -0400
> To: pnp at abroere.xs4all.nl
> From: longshot at cybermax.net
> Subject: Re: [PnP] Elemental Arts...
> So how do you treat the pact though.  Does it last forever or do you cast elemental powers to reform teh pact each time?
> At 09:25 PM 9/28/09, you wrote:
> >In the game I am doing right now the players have managed to get the  
> >"signature" of a gnome of some measure, after helping an Air  
> >elemental.  When they summon for him they use their "key", and still  
> >roll against his MDV (he may be "busy").  If they do otherwise, it's  
> >just some mook elemental summoned for a short-term spell task.
> >
> >Since they have the contact, they can parlay with the gnome and have  
> >contracted out earth elemental help for their new kingdom in the Elder  
> >mountains.  Granted, I think I have to review the "price" in goods the  
> >Gnome have been charging them (it's working out that the gnomes are  
> >like union bosses so far in my game -- I'll have to see about finding  
> >a different "flavor" for the other top elementals), but once they  
> >summon their contact, they do influence type rolls to make their deals  
> >for longer term contracts and numbers.
> >
> >As an example for the last game, they contracted previously with the  
> >Gnome (who I have to name and stat out) and managed to get 1 month  
> >contract out, with 100 elementals.  The task was to turn over the  
> >hills (uprooting trees and upping rocks, at 2 acres per elemental per  
> >day) for their new land in the western elder mountains.  Later on,  
> >they contacted again and contracted out some elemental tunneling for  
> >their land, and eventually worked up to a big tunneling contract.   
> >Over all, they spent nearly 4,000GP in "goods" as bribes/sacrifices to  
> >the gnome for his minions work.
> >
> >Now, I was woking based on something like 2SC per elemental/day in  
> >goods as the basic rate, and I may well have been too cheap...when I  
> >review my prices it may get real expensive in the future.
> >
> >In terms of the pact, The wizard of the group did the first summoning,  
> >and all influence rolls for haggling the deal had to go through him,  
> >since he was the one who did the summons, despite the elf in the group  
> >having the better influence and haggling skill.  Later on they had the  
> >elf do the pact, so he could do the deals, but obviously that cuts the  
> >wizard out on any skill gain there.
> >
> >
> >On Sep 28, 2009, at 7:54 PM, Scott Adams wrote:
> >
> >>At 02:48 AM 9/28/09, Thomas O. Magann Jr. wrote:
> >>
> >>Noted.  I agree that casting for practice in terms of summoning  
> >>isn't wise from the gods POV.  Why I warn folks beforehand.  One  
> >>system of about 30 I run does use summoning and doesn't treat the  
> >>pact this way.  I just hope to hear from other GMs.  Thanks.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>>I don't know.   I just don't see the logic in the pact being  
> >>>>forever.  I could see if one mage stayed on one lake for his  
> >>>>entire life.  But if he moved to diff ocean or went to upper world  
> >>>>and came back ..etc.  So I just always figured need to cast EP to  
> >>>>reform a current pact.  Why I was hoping other GMs and maybe  
> >>>>Richard would comment on this.
> >>>>
> >>>>Hopefully more comments will come.
> >>>>Thanks.
> >>>
> >>>For the record, I am a GM. many games, including P&P.  Also, other  
> >>>sorts of pacts are usually permanent (after all, how many souls  
> >>>does one have?)  noparticular  reason for this one to be temporary.
> >>>
> >>>The spell description defines the Pacts as alliances. Those  
> >>>generally last longer than the first time one of the allies needs a  
> >>>favor. If not, you've not got a real alliance.
> >>>
> >>>It's an elemental summoning spell, not a spell to talk to the local  
> >>>water spirit/vily. You don't get local beings, you get beings from  
> >>>the lower  or upper worlds (or the air above the upper world, if  
> >>>you're after an air elemental). That's the core of a summoning:  
> >>>contact level creatures only. It's why you can get a water serpent  
> >>>at sea but not a lake (well, with the spell, you could always try a  
> >>>shout at a lake) .
> >>>
> >>>Besides, why would a pact end as long as you kept to it? Pay the  
> >>>elementals you summon for their inconvenience, don't bother them  
> >>>too often, send them home when you're done (after paying, of  
> >>>course) and they'll be better disposed to you, not worse. Why would  
> >>>they break the pact for good treatment?
> >>>
> >>>Sit on a ship with  a chest of earth constantly summoning earth  
> >>>elemental over the ocean sending them home immediately with no  
> >>>payment, day in and day out for weeks just to get better when you  
> >>>really need it, well, THAT would be cause to break a pact. Might  
> >>>make it hard to reform, too.
> >>>
> >>>Again, 'permanent' doesn't mean 'forever', like any alliance, it  
> >>>means 'until violated'. How many spell casters actually think of  
> >>>paying the elementals they summon, after all? For that matter, how  
> >>>many human wizards summon elementals that dont' like humans? Most  
> >>>elemental entries will tell you what the opinion of the sub race of  
> >>>elemental is towards humans, and in many cases a clue as to  
> >>>potential payment.
> >>>
> >>>The players that summons neutral and friendly elementals, rather  
> >>>than enemy ones, that offers payment, and that can actually cast a  
> >>>strong enough dispel to send it home, and only summons in need, not  
> >>>just for practice, has kept to the pact/alliance. No reason to lose  
> >>>it. that's the kind of mage/wizard an elemental would prefer to  
> >>>deal with. Well, those that like to deal with them at all.
> >>>
> >>>The 'practice makes perfect' mage, the human that summons  
> >>>elementals that hate humanity, so the elemental can serve a human,  
> >>>the mage that never even thinks to offer payment... well, that's  
> >>>the mage that needs to keep recasting the Pact. Of course, he's  
> >>>also the mage that will have the most expertise, simply because he  
> >>>casts the spell so much more often.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>Thank you for your time,
> >>>
> >>>Thomas O. Magann Jr.
> >>
> >>
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