J Hooten jhooten at binary.net
Thu Nov 27 02:45:22 CET 2008

Not sure if I ever posted this here, its from long ago in an attempt to 
determine costs for forced marches or other extreme moves
I was never happy with most games fudge figures and not being based on 
the characters stamina etc
So first is what is the range of real numbers as compared to the games 
to see if there is some pattern

PnP Combat movement:
Speed in mile per hour = (movement rate * 10 feet / 12 sec turn)*3600 
sec/hour*1mile/5280 feet = .57 * movement rate
This says a horse moves at 13.7 mph which is 1/3 of a run(37mph in 1 
mile race)
A human 10 then is 5.7 miles a hour which is 2x a normal walk
And 1/3 of a 4 minute mile(15mph), sprints exceed 1/4(23mph)
Does anyone remember marathon running speeds?
26.1 miles in 2:36:09 for Kona Marathon (10mph)
5km(3.1mile) in 18:58(9.8mph)
Olympic marathon 11.8mph by Abebe Bikila 1964
Roman marching speeds (20 miles/day?)

A fit horse, properly fed, could carry a light rider more than 100 
miles/day. But not for very many days in a row.
Pony express speeds? 184 miles/day but traveled day and night for 10 
days with many changes possible 8-10 miles each change
recent torch ride=More than 300 Riders rode 1-2 mile rides on the 544 
mile, 56:15 hour route. Average 10 mph.

Movement types from above data:
long walk=1/3 move, walk=1/2 move, jog=move, long run= 2x move, short 
run=3x move, sprint=4x move

long walks can be done for days
walks of 8 hours dangerous
jogs of 4 hours are dangerous=double time marches?
with long runs of 2 hours being dangerous as marathon runners are in bad 
shape at finish
short runs are 4 minute area with minimal chance of damage
sprints are 1 minute area

BUT P&P daily move equals movement rate in miles per 12 hours which is 
very slow. They must be stopping for munchies alot or sight seeing

D20 DnD Movement:
Spd is feet/rnd, Spd is valid for Tactical(1 rnd) and Local(1 min) but 
is close to same at 1 hour(rounding?)
For 1 hour ave move is slower at spd/10 MPH (actual would be .114mphxspd 
or 3.4mph for 30 not 3 as this shows?)
For 1 day(8 hours) ave move is the same at spd/10 MPH
Walk 1x, Hustle 2x, Run x3, Run x4, Run x5(skill)
Man spd=30, light horse=60

Walk 30=3.4mph is droped to 3mph and is used for all times 1 rnd to 8 hours
The 4 minute mile is a run x5 for a human 30 spd, x4 for a 40(barbarian)
The sprint is an run x7-8 for human 30 spd and doesnt exist in DnD(x5 at 
40?) (Cheeta sprint is 10x usable once/hour)
The marathon is a run x3-4 held for more than 2 hours and causes damage, 
also not covered in DnD

In general runs cost subdual with the run higher x's costing much more
The 26 mile marathon, 4 min mile, 100 yard dash all leave the runner hurting
If we base on 40 spd as athlete
Sprint 23mph is x5(4.5mphx5=22.7 close, for only 1-2 rnds, only loss of 
breath, recover quickly)
1 mile 15mph is x3-4(x3=13.6,x4=18.2, for 4 min, slower recovery, high 
risk of cramps)
26 mile 10mph is x2-3(x2=9,x3=13.6 for 2-3 hours, commonly unfinished 
due to collapse)
note: x2 marathon would only cost 3 subdual for 3 hour hustle and is 
obviously not reality here
I would guess square of speed ratio more damage is realistic
So x3 is twice the subdual, x4 is 4 times, x5 would be 6 times but you 
should not get any free time?
Note: 3 mile races are 10mph so human's cannot maintain more than x2 for 
very long in reality

New ultramarathon data?
2500 Km in 22 days (74 miles/day)
3100-Mile Race in 48 days (65 mile/day)
8807 miles in 295 days (30 miles/day)
117.9 miles in 24 hours (~5mph)
Leadville Trail 100 mile in 17:23 (~6 mph)
50 mile trail 7 hours (~7mph)
Skyline 50K Endurance Run in 4 hours (~8mph) but Hilly, Dirt Trails and 
Fire Roads
half marathon 13 miles? in 1:15 is still 10mph
5 km  14:54 is 12.4 mph
8 km  24:28 is 12.2 mph
10 km  30:29 is 12.2 mph
12 km  38:23 is 11.8 mph
15 km  46:57 is 11.9 mph
20 km  1:05:11 is 11.4 mph
25 km  1:22:31 is 11.3 mph
30 km  1:39:02 is 11.3 mph
50 km  3:13:51 is 9.6 mph
100 km  7:00:48 is 8.9 mph
50 mile  5:40:18 is 8.8 mph
100 mile  13:47:42 is 7.2 mph
24 hr  243,656 m is 6.3 mph
The above is world records so these are highly trained endurance runners
I would think they are 30 base as not sprinters so above is x2 150mile 
or 24 hours/x3 50mile or 6 hours/x4 20mile or 1.5 hour
Assuming similar conditions as to why that was limit then there is a pattern
x2 24hour/x3 6hour/x4 1.5hour are all about 4 times per step
So x3 costs 4 times the subdual as x2 and x4 is 16 times x2 for subdual/hour
Or max distance is 48/18/6 all 3 ratios
I think this is actually a Damage~=4^(x-1)*time
4*24=96        d=2*spd*t
4*4*6=96    d=3*spd*t
4*4*4*1.5=96    d=4*spd*t

Schnockel wrote:
> Here are some examples of PMR:
> PMR 1 - Man's walking speed, horse walking speed
> PMR 7 - 4-minute mile
> PMR 9 -slow flying birds
> PMR 10 - Olympic sprinter
> PMR 12 - Thrown dagger or axe
> PMR 18 - FASTEST Riding horse/spear/javelin toss
> PMR 22 - Lion/gazelle at a run
> PMR 26 - 60MPH car
> PMR 42-ish - Arrows, bolts, etc...thrown baseball (100MPH)
> I have a whole spreadsheet of these...
> Dave Sanders
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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