Archery question

Choinski, Burton Burton.Choinski at MATRIXONE.COM
Thu Apr 19 18:43:32 CEST 2001

|| I have a huge problem with the "row for bow" system. Even though,
|| apparently, that is what it does indeed state in the book,
|| it totally goes
|| against the rest of the entire system. I DO NOT agree that
|| guns and bows
|| are "point and pull" weapons. I took one too many archery classes to
|| believe that.

There are many differnt systems in P&P, as you well know.  Witness the
various differing systems used to handle swimming, Climbing and Influence.

I do agree that using it straight is somewhat unreasonable, but bows are
pretty much a "fire and forget" system.  At most ranges you are targeting a
most-likely landing point, not bobbing and weaving in order to stay on
target (which is what the OCV-DCV simulates).

I do shoot archery to some degree, so I have at least some common
experience. (EL0, EL1 at best :).  AT a 20 yard target (60', or 6" -- Short
range with my composite bow, a +7) Assigning me a 65% chance to hit a
combat-aware and moving mansized target is probably being a bit generous; I
get about 80% on a non-moving target so I guess it's ok.

However, I know several people I would easily classify as EL8+, but with
about the same "CEL" as me scoring a lot of "deadlies" and "Severe" hits at
that same range, moreso then would be justified by an extra 7% to hit.

Obviously, many of the rules in P&P are for simulation only and should just
invoke SoD as 'P&P physics' :}

|| ACTUAL "hunting" experience. I shot a bird once 7 times and it just
|| wouldn't die. I was at point blank range for shots 2-7. I
|| did not become
|| an "expert" just because I was close as the "row for bow"
|| would suggest. If
|| a gun (or BOW) uses a BL 16 it is the same as saying they
|| suddenly become
|| as expert as a combat experience 12 veteran, who has +2
|| bonuses. I simply
|| do not see this as real in any way shape or form.

Well, taking a real squinty-eyed look at the table shows that 1 CEL ~~ 2 EL
in hitting effectiveness (basically). If you used the row level as a bonus
(inverting the sign, of course), a +8 bonus is effectivly the same as
getting +4 CEL.  However, the -8 on the roll weights it toward the deadly
hits, instead of spreading it over the entire hit range.  EL alone should do

Perhaps a slight change in process will do this justice.  First off, I doubt
SB is a help in missile fire any more then DB is in defending against it.
StB makes sense (being able to remain steady and hold the bow string while
aiming) as does AB on the defense.  Perhaps one needs to make a RCV (Ranged
Combat Value) of CEL+StB and a RDV (Ranged Dodge Value) of CEL+AB.  Purists,
like Marcel :} can just use OCV and DCV for simplicity.

The problem is what to do with the bow values.  I'll create an excel table
(which I will send to Wout) with all the ranged weapon values converted to
TABLE modifiers (not roll modifiers).

We'll see how that works this or next weekend.
       -- Burton
Burton Choinski
Principle Software Engineer, Quality Engineering
email: burton.choinski at

phone: 978-322-2135
fax  : 978-452-5764

MatrixOne, Inc.
Two Executive Drive
Chelmsford, Ma 01824

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