<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Arial; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'><P>Perhaps the availability of the axe, or noose, plus weakened or drugged prisoners, plus assistants/guards...etc...would make the task 'easy'...but being in the field, with the superior strength of the prisoner, the size of the creature or humanoid, or the experience the executioner has with the species, etc, might make the difficulty much greater.</P>
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<P>Yes, you can kill a person that's not bound, but that's not the skill. The skill is only bound or helpless. An unbound, aware person is going to do/see something...the executioner isn't an assassin, after all. He's not skilled in stealth...just talking your ear off...figuratively and really...(eewww...gross)</P>
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<P>There doesn't seem to be a reason to make two sub-groups of executioners, either. Why can't one person be both? When he has the tools and environment, he kills easily (or at least succeeds in his skill roll) and in the field, under less than perfect conditions, his chance of success, and gaing expertise points, falls.</P>
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<P>It's all a matter of defining the difficulty of the situation. Which has to be done for ALL non-combat skills.</P>
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<P>As for the assassin...the same applies. Does the character set up or have the situation to make the assassination easier or is it near impossible because of the guards and traps and awareness of the target? </P>
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<P>As for the 'well, anybody could do that' arguments...yes, they can...but the assassins (and executioners!) are TRAINED to do it, and do it well. Anybody can grab a sword and kill someone with it...but a TRAINED swordsman is FAR better at it.</P>
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<P>dave S</P>
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<P><B>From: </B>"Scott Adams" <longshotgm@netzero.com><BR><B>To: </B>"PBEM List" <pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl><BR><B>Sent: </B>Friday, July 29, 2011 9:14:47 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>[pnpgm] Assassin/Executioner skills<BR><BR> <BR><BR> Powers and Perils is a deadly system and experience can be fast<BR> and furious. There has always been two skills that I find to be<BR> a bit hard to award just blanket experience. The following outline<BR> both of those skills.<BR><BR> 1) Assassin<BR><BR> We know this is the largest skill to buy and is worth it since<BR> we know it can give great benefits. The core items of this skill<BR> are:<BR><BR> A) Ambush: Skill use is in the ability to ambush another person.<BR> Not everyone deals in perfect ambushes. Most tend to think<BR> ambush is simply come behind a person and stabbing them in the<BR> back. But to me the aspect of ambush is in the skill of the mind.<BR> Anyone can come around a corner and grab a guy to kill him. But<BR> the more elaborate assassin's use the skills they learned to<BR> their advantage. Place a carpet over a hole in a house picked<BR> with spikes and have the target over it and fall in to his doom<BR> is more exciting and use of the skill. It also builds reputation.<BR> Anyone can jump off a boulder to thrash a man. That doesn't take<BR> so much skill there. Any hired goon can do that. But the artist<BR> could rig up a tree trap to trigger blades to pierce targets then<BR> another tree to propel a net to capture the victim. That would<BR> be a more elaborate ambush and worth the experience. <BR> <BR> The problem is what qualifies as a ambush from a simple attack? To<BR> me I take it all on a case by case basis. An ambush can be an<BR> attack without melee. Fire a bow to a target and kill him without<BR> touching him. Is that use of Bow or Assassin skill? Under the<BR> rules it could be both. But at what point do you decide the<BR> skill used or the assassin skill? If one simply awarded expertise<BR> for every attack then the assassin would be maxed up in short order.<BR><BR> When one thinks of Assassins one thinks of dark shadows and doing<BR> it from behind. But that isn't the case all the time. It is<BR> possible to ambush a person standing a foot away who has seen<BR> you for minutes. It is all in the method used. I do think this<BR> skill adds too much benefits at times. This is why some balance<BR> has to be used in the reason of experience.<BR><BR> So to me the best ambush is those well thought out and with<BR> good role playing. This doesn't have to happen all the time.<BR> Simply walking up to a guy to backstab him is fine. Just keep<BR> in mind the more elaborate the more experience one might get.<BR><BR> B) Expertise: Does expertise get earned from the ambush itself<BR> or from all attacks? To me this is a bit unclear. While a<BR> assassin is skilled in the deadly arts this seems to be a easy<BR> task so should he earn more "normal" experience? A butcher<BR> who works on meat for 20 years finds some strange new animal<BR> to butcher should he earn higher experience or just assume<BR> its so "standard" that experience is low. Sometimes experience<BR> can only go so far. So should a deadly killer get more experience<BR> than a simple infantry guy because he is in a guild? Maybe<BR> not for everything. But the assassin would have possibly more<BR> from methods like poison but then again one could argue it<BR> should be poison skill not assassin. <BR><BR> A person in my world can still react to a ambush. A person<BR> who is about to be jumped from a tall tree could react in<BR> a second or two. Their senses might detect the ambush EVEN<BR> though the ambush by the rules is good. So in that split second<BR> a assassin backstabs a person the target can still sense it.<BR> Though he is very likely not about to react time. <BR><BR> With that said I award Assassin expertise based on the style<BR> of ambush and the overall possible reaction. It is taken on<BR> a case by case basis.<BR><BR> Expertise is gained by the ambush effect but not for all<BR> attacks or bonuses that the Assassin skill awards. Does the<BR> assassin benefit from the full combat effects all the time?<BR> Yes. Those effects are always on like OCV or weapon bonuses.<BR> Frankly I've always though Assassin should learn Healer so they<BR> learn the anatomy of the body for the most efficient way to<BR> kill. But that is a side issue.<BR><BR> C) HPV bonus: Frankly I do tend to forget the HPV bonus for the<BR> expertise gained. I always catered to that being for actual<BR> targets rather than just random spur of the moment attack. But<BR> going forward I'll include the hpv bonus in the expertise.<BR><BR> D) How best to earn assassin expertise: Anyone can get behind<BR> a person and stab a knife in their back. The true aspect of this<BR> skill is the exceptional use. Even with a perfect ambush by the<BR> numbers there is still a chance the target will react a split<BR> second before. A half second before the knife digs deep the<BR> person's sixth sense will alert him. So in that slight chance<BR> the expertise might be less or none depending on the level of<BR> awareness. Again, I take it a case by case basis. <BR><BR><BR><BR> 2) Executioner<BR><BR> To me there are two forms of executioners in pnp. Those who are<BR> paid as a living to kill or torture. Then the common man who has<BR> had some skill or training in some way to do it privately but not<BR> in some official capacity.<BR><BR> A) Private to public: Clearly public executioners are the common<BR> hang-men or axers that chop off folk's heads or the secret prison<BR> torture guy. Those guys get the most immediate experience based<BR> on the fast tasks they perform.<BR><BR> Where the issue of experience tends to come in is private folks.<BR> Anyone can kill a person that is helpless. The line comes in that<BR> area that gives the basic experience for a death blow or killing<BR> a person using the execution skill. <BR><BR> B) What defines helpless? The obvious would be ropes or being<BR> knocked out. But a target can be helpless if he is standing<BR> right in front of you and can't defend himself. The problem is<BR> where does the gray line divide from basic combat kill, execution<BR> kills or assassin/ambush kills? One can argue that if the person<BR> can defend themself or not helpless the skill is wasted. In some<BR> cases I find that the skill can still be used in those situations.<BR> But it is a case by case basis. For example a man who is bound<BR> but has elbows free is bound but not helpless. He could still<BR> elbow a person to fight back. Would that cancel the executioner<BR> skill? The problem is the fine line for these points.<BR><BR> C) Torture: The nice aspect of this skill is the torture. It<BR> clearly will earn experience without question. You either get<BR> answers or you don't. The problem is the other side of the skill<BR> on killing.<BR><BR> D) Difficulty level: Which level does the GM assign for the<BR> task? IT depends on the situation. A bound guy on the floor<BR> will be a easy Easy task. If that person is squirming then<BR> maybe a one grade higher. But what about the barbarian who<BR> is helpless running away from the knight on his horse? The<BR> knight may be expert rider but doing a quick executioner skill<BR> to kill the guy in one blow is hard thus would be a Impossible<BR> or such level of difficulty. This is how I judge the factors.<BR> By far the most common would be easy to moderate level for<BR> the most common things.<BR><BR> E) Other restrictions: Little is added to the final result<BR> for the executioner skill. But there is no black and white<BR> answer to the situation. While the majority of cases no<BR> other restrictions will apply there may be one or two. For<BR> example, a person who has to execute his friend in order to<BR> save a town. That person who normally would not shake his<BR> hands might and thus slip. So it will be a case by case thing.<BR><BR> F) Non-skill use: The problem is where is simple common<BR> killing or executioner death needed? The easy answer one<BR> must declare the skill being used or common skills will be used.<BR> The more complex answer is that not every execution might be<BR> deemed a execution. It is beyond the scope of this document<BR> to cover every situation. For example leaving a bottle of poison<BR> for a prisoner to drink in a cell isn't a normal execution.<BR> But if the prisoner is thirsty enough he'll be desperate to<BR> do it. While its not a direct execution it might qualify<BR> as experience. But leave that same prisoner in a cave which<BR> may or may not collapse is likely not a execution. There<BR> is no control over that situation so it is not a direct<BR> result of your execution skill, so no experience.<BR><BR> G) Non weapons: The common weapon is the axe for a executioner.<BR> But that isn't needed all the time. He will be able to use<BR> any weapon of their choice. Even if he isn't skilled in that<BR> weapon he could use it though at a reduced EL. So any weapon<BR> is allowed. in fact non traditional methods are allowed as<BR> well. Martial arts or some could even use magic to kill without<BR> using a normal weopon.<BR><BR> H) Executioner bonus: The execution benefits are not always on<BR> unlike the Assassin benefits. I only invoke those benefits<BR> when the skill is declared in use. Otherwise the person would<BR> be trying to kill everyone in one blow rather than knocking them<BR> out or taking prisoner. So the benefits are turned off when the<BR> skill isn't used.<BR><BR> I) How to earn experience: As outlined before the torture end is<BR> straight forward. But the other side killing is not so easy.<BR> First a person must declare the skill is being used. The problem<BR> is that anyone can kill a person. The intent needs to be defined<BR> for the death. If one is to kill to quicken the death due to<BR> pain then experience would be awarded in that the best death blow<BR> is the fastest and most efficient. But if the intent is to kill<BR> a person with pain and leave them bleeding from the stomach then<BR> maybe the experience will be little to none. This is because the<BR> goal of the skill is to kill not prolong life. Torture does<BR> prolong the life of the victim but the other side of the skill<BR> does not. This is where the fine line is drawn. <BR><BR>y<BR><BR><BR><BR>_______________________________________________<BR>pnpgm mailing list<BR>pnpgm@abroere.xs4all.nl<BR>http://abroere.xs4all.nl/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnpgm<BR></P></div></body></html>