[pnpgm] And now for something out of the ordinary..

[Scott Adams]

    [This Post is reference to the Whitney/Kiet argument.  If you wish
     not to read it then delete and skip it.  If you wish to see some
     of my personal views on it then continue.  This will be my final
     say on the subject and we'll continue back to the original path
     of having fun in the game.]



        Howdy all,

        This is a special post that will go to the list and to Thomas's
    email as he is no longer on the list.  I felt I need to actually
    comment now more in depth.  First being a programmer I am a detail
    oriented person.  This shows in the game with the massive amount
    of details the nitpicking of actions and such.  That I can't help
    it.  I know at times it bogs down realism but I believe a REAL realism
    is far more fun than a "well I guess youc an jump that 15 foot ridge
    sure!" guess work.  I'm a type A personality and perfectionist even
    though at times my spelling is atroci..atro..errr awful! :)

        Now some history some of you old timers like Farseeker, Unali,
     Z'leyra and maybe even Ben'dar might recall Greg Reid aka Bertram.
     He either did not understand or WANT to understand the rules as they
     were (pre-v2).  He would argue for days on details and rule views.
     During the first adventure he decides to split up from the party
     on Clima.  One reason was distrust of the group (he felt a traitor
     in the group, there was a traitor but not in the group) and didn't
     want to deal with the rules in some ways.  Now as he split up I had
     to split up the game for him and the party time wise.  This bogged
     down things.  It cost us that summer from late spring to fall.
     Eventually (and I don't blame them now) the party tired of it.  Bertram
     would end up walking into a barracks and suddenly quite mysteriously
     die for some reason (I know the cause and killer but that secret would
     cost many gold coins to spill :)).    It was my first advneture outside
     the BBS world on the computer.  As it was I was new and wanted to
     please everyone.

        Some more history.  I'm from the BBS world.  BBS stands for bulletin
     board system.  It was a way for folks to call in to a place and
     communicate via messages, play games and download files.  This all
     before the internet existed as a household name.  I was a heavy member
     in the FidoNet world which was a world wide message network.  We even
     paid $$ to send the messages around the world until the net came out
     infrastructure wise and allowed us to do it for free.  In the mid-90s
     Fidonet turned grand to ugly and we would eventually call it
     Fight-o-net by the new century.  The common household word Flame came
     about as folks would read messages and then pounce.  It became a
     lifestyle for some.  Some felt they HAD to comment or get involved
     or post back to stir up things months or years after the thread died.
     The problem was a human thing.  Interpretation.  We are all males here
     though some play females.  So we know of examples if you say one
     thing to that species they'll go off on a tangent and to them as
     if you said something evil to them.  

        Now back to the present day we have players who comment on things
      and tease.  We've had teasing of Fremea (disguises, size, etc.),
      Raban (naked at the worm, size, dancing, pants torn on the ship,
      etc.), Arawn (for his plan making when folks tend to ignore them),
      Zhou (for his leadership), Z'leyra (for her magic toy warehouse),
      Kiet (for his service to Zhou, etc.), Whitney for his professor like
      comments on scholary things.  These things happen and should be
      done.  It adds spice to the game.  I encourage it.  When we are
      around a table we cna see body language and hear tone.  But
      in a post we can't.  We can attempt with (G), LOL or :)s but even
      then folks will ignore that and read what they want to.

        This most recent mess was supposed to have started 2 weeks ago.
      Personally I saw Kiet teasing Whitney in various ways as he and
      others teased Zhou and such.  I saw it as Kiet explained good
      humor.  Then I saw the slew of posts this past weekend and had to
      catch up to who said what.  Then I saw Kiet/David's post on how
      he wasn't sorry to Thomas.  Well that did change a few things.
      Maybe I misread things or failed my perception roll.

        Being a GM/Referee demands one be partial.  I try never to take
      favorites.  I've learned years ago from another GM when you do
      that player gets all the good things and such.  Its just unfair.
      We are all adults here (I assume I can't recall the ages of all
      folks here from the applications).  We should be able to tease
      and jest but not fight.  As thomas says fighting makes the game
      suffer.  I try to be diplomatic on these things.  Yes I admit
      I don't want to lose any player (it never has happened in the
      last decade).  I can't cater to one while bash the other.  Not
      without the obvious things.  Then I see David's post.  Granted
      I'm all for Freedom of speech.  We all have a right to say what
      we wish.  But if a person asks you to stop then maybe you should
      after that it would be bad and I'd have to deal with it.  This
      weekend maybe there was a slight bit of that but it happened so
      fast I didn't catch up to it.

        Thomas says folks are afraid to post.  I would hope not.  I
      know he is and I don't blame him.  Personally in my tenure in
      Fidonet I've learned simply to skip the person and don't give
      intot he person.  You reply then maybe its your fault if things
      get stirred up again (generic you not you Thomas).  I had my
      flame wars with folks then but I learned also to ignore persons
      and that tended to do more harm to their minds than replying.
      Ever ignore a 2 year old boy in a fit?  They'll calm down and
      get straight soon.

        We have a lot of folks but as far as I know no one is afraid
      to post that is in the game now.  Sure some are quiet but they
      each have their reasons from busy at work, moving, deaths in the
      family and other issues.  For that the game should be secondary
      and you should handle life first, game second.  We have enough
      active folks to handle the game now.  So I don't mind at all
      folks being awol or quite as long as I do have some word and
      they dont' fall off the face of the planet. :)

        Thomas believes I should have stopped it from the start.  Maybe
      I should have if I read it the way he did.  Up till Davdi's
      not sorry post I felt it was as it was.  Then I realized David
      was actually baiting.  Baiting should not be done nor just ignored
      or allowed.  Once we get to that the game suffers.  Baiting to get
      a person to save their life or an ally or bait to tease is one thing
      but bait to offend is another.  But how does one judge offense?
      If we could market that in a machine I'd be rich as I could sell
      it to males who date females.  Once a post is done it leaves and
      is on the net.  Posts do not come to me and I approve them.  I
      only approve them if the person is not on the list.  So once
      a person posts its out for all to see.  We've seen mistakes with
      private stuff going public.  This is why one must be careful.

        This seemed to have started back when Arawn tried to get Whit
      to douse the lights.  We saw how that went back and forth.
      I personally thought it was good clean character arguments. One
      tried to feel his need to save the party was above that of
      avoiding a shadow creature to one being hit by an archer likely
      not to have followed with the rear guard.

        Now David if you did bait that's not a good thing to do.  You
      are adult enough to admit it but also adult to not say you're
      sorry to Thomas.  While I can understand both views it has
      created a bad scene.  Thomas has already left the game.  He
      feels you would continue the baiting if he returned.  I would
      hope not.  Should I take action?  Banish or kill or whatnot?
      One side says yes but another says no.  I beleive in second
      chances.  I gave them to Greg.  I would hope that in the future
      you would not bait to offend.  Now of course that's not to say
      restrict your words.  Post all and anything you want.  But
      once it get sto a point and a person demonstrates he doesn't
      like the words then please stop.  I don't recall Thomas ever
      asking directly for you to stop posting to him but I may
      be wrong.  So I won't banish or kill you.  You all know I don't
      kill outright.  I only kill stupid folks for stupid actions.
      If you want to walk through that acid pool even after I demonstrate
      your staff is now smoking and gone from dipping it in then by
      all means step in.  This is how i saw Kiet warn Whitney of the
      high MDV thing about abymsals.  But Thomas took it differently.
      But in the future David or anyone else if you need to say
      something do it with the Golden Rule in mind.  Think before
      you post.  Dont' sit back and wonder if your moves will be bad
      or not taken with soe nit picking.  That will be done by myself
      and others as all actions tend to be generic and we need to
      develop them.

        Sadly Whitney has already removed himself from the list.  Even
      before I could. I still welcome him back and it is up to him.
      If he doesn't return then we'll just have him leave the party
      in Pamau as the Vong might be too hard fo rhim to deal with and
      he did have plans going south I believe.  This assumes he
      lives till that point.  But for now he'll go into full npc mode.
      I won't take revenge and kill him out of spite for leaving.  That
      would be wrong.

        So my view is initially I saw it as good humor and fun.  Then
      my eyes oepened with David's post.  For that Thomas I'm sorry for
      you to be the victim.  If you return I hope you do that's fine.
      If not we at least part friends I hope.  Your actions and posts
      have been quite good, helpful and insightful to the game.  A
      good asset.  To David here is your "slap on the wrist" the first
      warning.  Naughty boy!  As Rodney says "can't we all just get
      along?"

        Taht is all I wanted to say.  For those who sent emails on their
      reading of this situation I appreciate being CCed even with
      Thomas CCing me.  I won't say how folks felt but there is a celar
      view what the party felt of the situation.  It wouldn't do good
      to view those opinions though.  You do not need to reply to this
      but I just wanted to post my quick thoughts on it.  Thomas if
      you post to the list it won't go out since your off.  But if you
      wnat to I can approve it if need be.  But I doubt you would want to.

      Now back to the game..the fun and hopefully a good slaughter....
      err I mean a good battle!

(Too lazy to spell check....and the Dwarves are out playing human toss since they saw Dwarf Tossing on TV once and thought it cruel...so they can't spell check it for me).