<html>
At 09:01 AM 4/27/05 -0400, you wrote: <br>
<br>
<font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>I have to chime in that I think
the "labor cost" method, as used in the GURPS building
construction rules that I adapted for Wout's site is the most accurate
way to figure this out. It would, as a research project, involve several
steps:</font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<font size=3>I hear Gurps is a good system. I read the stuff youdid
years ago on the list but not sure if I read the cost stuff. I
recall you doing some basic build rules and those I have and used up to
this point. <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>1) Determine the types of
laborers required (Foresters, for raw timber, carpenters and shipwrites
(sp?) for construction, sailmakers for rope and sail, etc). Determine
the basic pay per day of labor.</font></blockquote><br>
<br>
<font size=3>Yes. Will help.<br>
</font><font size=2>And I believe I have some of that data in my books
that I read last fall.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type=cite cite>2) Find some baseline ship for your modeling.
If you have the data for several ships, all the better as you can make a
more accurate model. <br>
</font><font size=3></blockquote>Found it. A website from a Greek
Museum the other night I found mentioned I believe 469 silver for a
specific trireme cost. So going to use this and 2 other sites I
found for a baseline. Then decompile from there. <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>3) For each ship determine
the quantity of raw materials (lumber). Determine time in man-days to
produce the raw materials and multiply by the gatherer cost (foresters).
<br>
</font><font size=3></blockquote>That section is in my chart I did on
every culture. I mention the amount<br>
of timber that is found in a resources column from poor, rare,
good,<br>
and excellent (like excellent would be Chosahi). So I have a good
idea how to use this chart in my back brain right now.<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>4) Determine the number of
man-days to build the model of ship, based on quantity of lumber going
into it. Multiply this by some fudge factor to reflect shipyard quality
and vessel quality (degree of ornamentation or craftsmanship). You need
to figure this one out, Scott. Obviously, certain shipyard cities will
get the job done faster. Raw build cost is labor cost times number of
man-days. Increase this labor cost by 25% for every factor of 5 man days
to represent overseers and other overhead (i.e. +25% for 5 or more, +50%
for 25 or more, +75% for 125 or more, etc). <br>
</font></blockquote><br>
<font size=3>Yeah. That is a bit of fudging since the books I did
read mention build times but obviously it varies. In times of war
athens could build a ship in just a few days with a mss amount of men but
then other times maybe few weeks. So it depends on alot of factors
I'll have to mention.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>5) Determine man-days to
produce the rigging (if any) or ors (carpentry).</font><font size=3>
<br>
</blockquote>No data on that so far but shouldn't take but 1-3 days
MAX. Likely 1.5<br>
depending on number of rigs. Yep. T<br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>6) Construction time is
limited by ship size. Assume no more than 5 men per 10'
length+width+depth (Thus, a 50' long by 10' wide by 10' deep warship is
limited to 35 men of work per day -- you cant pile on a thousand men to
finish it in an hour). <br>
</font><font size=3></blockquote>Yep. Then the pitch and tar stuff
takes time or at the same time the wood is<br>
done. <br>
<br>
<br>
</font><font size=2><blockquote type=cite cite>NOTE: Time in step 6 may
need to be tweaked -- the 5 per 10' was just a number off the top of my
head. You man need to look at historical models to determine a better
number.</font></blockquote><br>
Any advice on a typical price for a single beam ? Maybe 5 BB to
determine the amount<br>
of costs for a ship in that regard since wood is likely at LEAST 80-90%
of the cost.<br>
Course if you have a forest you just cut down a tree and theres no cost
but ....the<br>
labor does play in that regard...as you mention above. <br>
<br>
Thanks good start.<br>
<br>
I'm going to have to work up prices on ship gear like anchors and ropes
and all that jazz<br>
just FYI purposes but I think mynotes have data on that from my
books.<br>
Course if you believe the price of anchors this one author quiotes I'll
stick with a stone<br>
anchor :)<br>
<br>
Will read your other posts on the build. Will get to it and think
on it when I get to that stuff. That's the more complex system than
the fun stuff I'm working on now like fleet fleshing and culture data and
special ships. It might be another week or two before get to
it.<br>
<br>
I'm sure anything I come up with will be complex to some and too simple
to others. But in the long run its something *I* can use since theres no
ship data in pnp :)<br>
<br>
Thanks for links some of those I think I already visited :)<br>
<br>
<br>
<BR>
<div>Longshot - ZC of AdventureNet International Echomail Network</div>
<div>Fringe BBS - EWOG II - 904-733-1721</div>
<div>Telegard / Allfix Beta Site</div>
<div>Website:
<a href="http://users.cybermax.net/~longshot" EUDORA=AUTOURL>http://users.cybermax.net/~longshot</a></div>
<div>ICQ: 24436933</div>
</html>