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<TITLE>RE: Armorer apprenticeships</TITLE>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>There probably also needs to be an upper limit to the apprentice adds, perhaps something like no more than 1 per 10# of material. You can't put 5 apprentices to work on a single dagger, but for armor and very large weapons it would come into play.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>The rule can probably be generalized to some degree for any sort of "crafting" task, including "crafting magic" (in which case you need to determine amount of work points required for enchantments, which will provide a game mechanic for this at last, other then just casting the mana.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Just as a point of data, from <A HREF="http://wtimmins.tripod.com/lore/swords.html" TARGET="_blank">http://wtimmins.tripod.com/lore/swords.html</A> :</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>=================</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>if you are starting with iron ore, here's the sequence of operations. This assumes medieval/ancient technology.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Smelt your ore - about2 days (with intermittent tending of the smelter). This requires a smelter and a hellatious amount of charcoal.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Iron smelting is one of the reasons for the deforestation of Europe.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Shape your metal - you now have a billet of crude iron (steel is produced in a reducing furnace, it is easy to get using modern techniques, it is very hard to get using ancient techniques. "Damascus" steel was especially prized, because it blended iron and steel in a "watered silk" pattern, that was both strong and flexible. Germany in the late Middle Ages was also able to produce good steel). Using a water or apprentice powered sledge hammer, beat the metal into the rough size and shape you want. This probably takes about 16-32 hours of work. Since the metal gets work hardened as you beat it you need to reheat it in a forge, otherwise it gets brittle.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Shape your blade - you now have a number of billets of metal of approximately the right size and shape. For a cheap blade, these can be forged to shape (say about 4 hours) and then sharpened (say 4 hours).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>For a good "pattern welded" blade you create some steel by heating iron in a sealed box full of charcoal dust overnight. (8-12 hours). Then you forge weld the steel billets to the iron billets and twist the two billets together in a helix. Then you shape the twisted billet into a sword shape. You then forge-weld a steel edge to this "twisted" body on both sides ofthe body so that both edges join at the tip. Finally temper the whole thing, so the body is flexible and the edges are stiff and will take a good edge.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Then you planish, fuller (put a "blood-groove" in) and shape the blade. This is process is tremendously time-consuming (say 3 days 24 hours work) and very tricky.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>High quality katanas had alternating billets of iron and steel folded and forge welded together all along the length of the sword. This process was repeated 7 times. It took/takes weeks!</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Finish your blade - File it to final shape and smoothness, polish it, engrave it (optional), sharpen it (4-8 hours for a western sword, 2 days - 2 weeks for a high-grade katana for sharpening, say 2 days to a week for shaping and polishing, any amount of time for engraving).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Hilt It - Form pieces of wood around the tang of the blade, shape them to fit the hand, cast/forge quillons and pommel, assemble hilt, wrap grip with wire/velvet. (Say 4 hours to cast quillons and pommel from brass. Assuming you don't have to smelt the ore for the brass, 4 hours to planish and polish quillons and pommel. Add any amount of time to engrave, bejewel or inlay the quillons, pommel. Say 4 hours to cut and shape the wood to fit the tang of the sword. Add 1 hour to wrap the grip well, assuming that you don't have to make the wire/cloth).</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Sheath It - Measure sword. Cut Thin strips of wood and leather to fit. Sew leather around strips of wood. Decorate leather. Add metal fittings at tip and top of sheath. Add mounting points for straps and staps. Possibly make a sword belt to match. (8 hours for basic sheath, add any amount of time for engraving, tooling, etc. )</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>==============</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Assuming a weaponsmith wanted to make this "sword" (assume it is a broadsword), ignoring the engraving and smelting steps, we have 24h to shape the metal, probably another 24h to forge the actual blade, another 24h to planish/fuller the blade, 8h to finish , 8h to hilt it, 8h to sheath it = ~72 work hours for a single blade. DO we assume that 1 work point is an hour or work? Given the above data I suppose you could put a few apprentices on (more than my 1 per 10# idea it seems). This will make your plain P&P broadsword. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>SO do we assume the "going rate" for blades is 18h of work per pound of weapon? Or not a direct function (perhaps a power, more like (weight/4)^0.8 x 72 work points.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Then we can figure the proper work rate needs for the other weapons, or just use the 72 for all metal weapons.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Probably requires some research, but we can probably come up with a few data points and then throw together some "feel's right" formulas.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>----------------------------------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Burton Choinski</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Principal Software Engineer, Quality Engineering</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>email: burton.choinski@matrixone.com</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>phone: 978-589-4089</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>fax: 978-589-5903</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Alex Koponen [<A HREF="mailto:akoponen@MOSQUITONET.COM">mailto:akoponen@MOSQUITONET.COM</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 1:02 PM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: POWERS-AND-PERILS@geo000.CITG.TUDELFT.NL</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: Re: Armorer apprenticeships</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>Okay, revised suggestion for when "or 80" skills have been tossed:</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2> In working a single forge an Armorer may have up to EL/2 (RU)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>apprentices. These apprentices may add their EL, up to a maximum of 50% of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>the Armorer's EL, to the Armorers effective skill in calculating speed* in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>forging armor and weapons.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> Apprentices with less than the Armorer's EL learn at 2 expertise per day,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>1 expertise per day if he has more than his maximum number of apprentices.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Literate apprentices may learn an additional 1 expertise per day if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>supplied with the proper books and manuals.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2> Typically an Armorer's Manual covers the basics up to EL1, then a series</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>of smaller, yet equally expensive books cover each EL while describing how</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>to make particular items or later how to improve one's skill</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>in particular aspects of the skill like quenching.</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>*In rules yet to be written...</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 11:58:08 -0500, Choinski, Burton</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2><Burton.Choinski@MATRIXONE.COM> wrote:</FONT>
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>>This sounds pretty good, but needs to be tweaked to a normal EL writing if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>the plan is to simplfy by tossing "or 80" skills and going pure singular</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>EL.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>Burton Choinski</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>From: Alex Koponen [<A HREF="mailto:akoponen@MOSQUITONET.COM">mailto:akoponen@MOSQUITONET.COM</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2004 11:21 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>To: POWERS-AND-PERILS@GEO.CITG.TUDELFT.NL</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>Subject: Armorer apprenticeships</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>Suggestion:</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> In working a single forge an Armorer may have up to EL/20 (RU)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>apprentices. These apprentices may add their EL, up to a maximum of 50% of</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>the Armorer's EL, to the Armorers effective skill in calculating speed* in</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>forging armor and weapons.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Apprentices with less than the Armorer's EL learn at 2 expertise per day,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>1 expertise per day if he has more than his maximum number of apprentices.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>Literate apprentices may learn an additional 1 expertise per day if</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>supplied with the proper books and manuals.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>> Typically an Armorer's Manual covers the basics up to EL10, then a series</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>of smaller, yet equally expensive books cover another 10 EL while</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>describing how to make particular items or later how to improve one's skill</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>in particular aspects of the skill like quenching.</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>>*In rules yet to be written...</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>></FONT>
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