[PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 140, Issue 8

Thomas O. Magann Jr. tmagann at earthlink.net
Fri Aug 18 07:08:23 CEST 2017


Well, V1 says "invisible"

-----Original Message-----
>From: David Sanders <dasandersx at comcast.net>
>Sent: Aug 17, 2017 8:23 PM
>To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>Subject: Re: [PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 140, Issue 8
>
>I think the existing skill treatment by the rules should work fine.  The GM assigns a difficulty level for the elf.  Hiding from a clueless couple more interested in each other than in any elf is easy.  'Disappearing' in front of an enemy very much aware of your presence is impossible...or nearly so.   
>
>It's not like invisibility.  It's more like avoiding notice.
>
>Dave
>
>Sent from my iPad
>
>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 5:21 PM, pnp-request at list.powersandperils.org wrote:
>> 
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>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Elf Hiding (Scott Adams)
>>   2. Re: Elf Hiding ( Thomas O. Magann Jr.)
>>   3. Re: Elf Hiding (Burton Choinski)
>>   4. Re: Elf Hiding (Burton Choinski)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 19:22:33 -0400
>> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>> Subject: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>> Message-ID: <mailman.440.1503015687.3085.pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> You don't see an Elf Hiding in the Forest.  They are real good at 
>> that kind of stuff.
>>> ;)
>>> Tom
>> 
>> Send pnp mailing list submissions to
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>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of pnp digest..."
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>> 
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Elf Hiding (Scott Adams)
>>   2. Re: Elf Hiding ( Thomas O. Magann Jr.)
>>   3. Re: Elf Hiding (Burton Choinski)
>>   4. Re: Elf Hiding (Burton Choinski)
>> 
>> 
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 19:22:33 -0400
>> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>> Subject: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>> Message-ID: <mailman.440.1503015687.3085.pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> You don't see an Elf Hiding in the Forest.  They are real good at 
>> that kind of stuff.
>>> ;)
>>> Tom
>> 
>> YEah but it seems way too arbitary.  So if a Elf is 2 feet away in 
>> front of you you just don't see him? Just too easy.
>> The rules elaborate details but it seems a weird thing.  So Elf and 
>> Hunter compete to hide.
>> They should have good skills.  But this elf hiding thing seems like 
>> almost a automatic
>> than a chance.
>> 
>> Mechanically at least.
>> I understand the basic idea.
>> 
>> Just think the rule on this could be tweaked.  I never got to 
>> thinking on it till recently.
>> Was curious if folks tweaked this skill/rule/mechanic.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 16:41:54 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
>> From: " Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tmagann at earthlink.net>
>> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>,
>>    pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>> Subject: Re: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>> Message-ID:
>>    <30551666.18120.1503013314138 at mswamui-backed.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>> 
>> Folks, while in some game systems Elves are magically invisible in forests, in most they just have the same Stealth Skills any human might. The question is: How good is the elf at hiding?
>> 
>> Or, to answer the original question: With my eyes, if they're young, or With a Detect Hidden Spell, if they're old. 
>> 
>> In P&P they may not be invisible. It depends, like so much, on their stats, which are experienced based. An average Elf, starting out, only have about a 22% chance of going unnoticed. 
>> 
>> Don't give them too much credit. By the time your characters are dealing with the older ones, either you're skilled(and older, yourself) or you're in deep mulch.
>> 
>> Also, simply because their ability IS magical, they may be sloppy. Branches force out of true, foot prints on the ground, etc. All the things Stealth wouldn't leave, invisibility does.
>> 
>> Look for the things they forget to conceal, because they assume you can't see them, so why bother?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2017 4:22 PM
>>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> Subject: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> You don't see an Elf Hiding in the Forest.  They are real good at 
>>> that kind of stuff.
>>>> ;)
>>>> Tom
>>> 
>>> YEah but it seems way too arbitary.  So if a Elf is 2 feet away in 
>>> front of you you just don't see him? Just too easy.
>>> The rules elaborate details but it seems a weird thing.  So Elf and 
>>> Hunter compete to hide.
>>> They should have good skills.  But this elf hiding thing seems like 
>>> almost a automatic
>>> than a chance.
>>> 
>>> Mechanically at least.
>>> I understand the basic idea.
>>> 
>>> Just think the rule on this could be tweaked.  I never got to 
>>> thinking on it till recently.
>>> Was curious if folks tweaked this skill/rule/mechanic.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> pnp mailing list
>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>> http://www.powersandperils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnp
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:06:29 -0400
>> From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
>> To: "Thomas O. Magann Jr." <tmagann at earthlink.net>, The Powers and
>>    Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>> Message-ID: <965D8CF4-85FB-4120-9C61-6E087A0F8DD7 at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> I think when I was running my P&P world using a home-brew system, they way I played it is that the Elf?s Empathy added to their stealth. We viewed it as as sort of like the Forest ?Helped? the elf hide, by drooping branches, tightening up bushes, leaves flashing out so as to provide more cover, etc.  Thus the use of Empathy
>> 
>> Now P&P core does not have stealth, or a corresponding notice skill. One could assume that ?Stealth? is a skill that everyone has, and is basically Agility for any task roles (multiplied by the difficulty modifier), and the noticing of a stealthy target is based on Int (perception, knowing what to look for).  In this case, an elf in the forest adds Empathy to both their Agility to be sneaky, AND their Int when looking for sneaking targets (the forest helps there as well, by rustling branches, etc).
>> 
>> If people have added an actual Stealth and Notice skill, add Empathy if it is an ?or 80? skill or Em/5 for normal skills.
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Burton Choinski
>> bchoinski at verizon.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 17, 2017, at 7:41 PM, Thomas O. Magann Jr. <tmagann at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Folks, while in some game systems Elves are magically invisible in forests, in most they just have the same Stealth Skills any human might. The question is: How good is the elf at hiding?
>>> 
>>> Or, to answer the original question: With my eyes, if they're young, or With a Detect Hidden Spell, if they're old. 
>>> 
>>> In P&P they may not be invisible. It depends, like so much, on their stats, which are experienced based. An average Elf, starting out, only have about a 22% chance of going unnoticed. 
>>> 
>>> Don't give them too much credit. By the time your characters are dealing with the older ones, either you're skilled(and older, yourself) or you're in deep mulch.
>>> 
>>> Also, simply because their ability IS magical, they may be sloppy. Branches force out of true, foot prints on the ground, etc. All the things Stealth wouldn't leave, invisibility does.
>>> 
>>> Look for the things they forget to conceal, because they assume you can't see them, so why bother?
>>> 
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net>
>>>> Sent: Aug 17, 2017 4:22 PM
>>>> To: pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>>> Subject: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> You don't see an Elf Hiding in the Forest.  They are real good at 
>>>> that kind of stuff.
>>>>> ;)
>>>>> Tom
>>>> 
>>>> YEah but it seems way too arbitary.  So if a Elf is 2 feet away in 
>>>> front of you you just don't see him? Just too easy.
>>>> The rules elaborate details but it seems a weird thing.  So Elf and 
>>>> Hunter compete to hide.
>>>> They should have good skills.  But this elf hiding thing seems like 
>>>> almost a automatic
>>>> than a chance.
>>>> 
>>>> Mechanically at least.
>>>> I understand the basic idea.
>>>> 
>>>> Just think the rule on this could be tweaked.  I never got to 
>>>> thinking on it till recently.
>>>> Was curious if folks tweaked this skill/rule/mechanic.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> pnp mailing list
>>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
>>>> http://www.powersandperils.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pnp
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> pnp mailing list
>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
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>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2017 20:22:10 -0400
>> From: Burton Choinski <bchoinski at verizon.net>
>> To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>> Subject: Re: [PnP] Elf Hiding
>> Message-ID: <05B362CA-6549-4D7C-AB1E-94EF13411886 at verizon.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>> 
>> As I pointed out in my missive, given a human and elf with Stealth skills the same, the elf has the edge when he adds in his Empathy to both hide and find in the forest, due to the help of the forest.
>> 
>> For invisibility we tweaked the spell a bit:
>> 
>> The Caster becomes perfectly transparent and undetectable by visual means. This will prevent casual detection but has no effect on other senses, so normal Stealth rolls will be needed to move quietly.
>> 
>> Any person that happens to contact into the Caster will be able to see him over the remainder of the Duration whether contact is maintained or not.
>> 
>> The spell is automatically dispelled if the Caster makes any form of attack or casts any spell that does not have a target of ?Self? (i.e ?pops the bubble?).
>> 
>> In terms of detection, A stationary invisible person can only be detected by magical means. 
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Burton Choinski
>> bchoinski at verizon.net
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 16, 2017, at 7:45 PM, Scott Adams <longshotgm at comcast.net> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> How do you guys see Elf Hiding in Forest?
>>> 
>>> Just a step above a smart hunter with camo and 1 step lower than a inviso guy?
>>> 
>>> 
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>>> pnp at list.powersandperils.org
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>> End of pnp Digest, Vol 140, Issue 8
>> ***********************************
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