[PnP] Eloquence revisited

Thomas O. Magann Jr. tmagann at earthlink.net
Thu Apr 9 20:33:30 CEST 2015

I think you might be using Eloquence, in part, where Empathy is the better fitting attribute. 

Sure, Eloquence is the attribute to describe your ability to get your message across, but if you're giving folks an insight as to the character of an NPC or his lack of Eloquence, that would be Empathy. Come to that, I'd say the same about a surprise check. How well you get your point across doesn't help see the thug in the bushes.

I understand the desire to find more uses for an under used attribute, but for eloquence it's more a matter of game style. It doesn't have much use in the wilderness or in combat. It's for politics, business, legal wrangling, etc. If the game is lacking in those (and similar challenges), then it will lack in in opportunities to be Eloquent.

On the other hand, if the game emphasizes those challenges, it will lack opportunity to use more physical attributes. It balances out, depending on play style.

Have your PCs defend themselves against charges (and when isn't there a potential murder charge hanging around in a combat oriented game?), start a merchant company and see to the opening of new markets and sales of good, get involved in politics, etc.

Hell, nearly every group has someone that wants to talk his way out of everything. Let him try. He'll use Eloquence plenty.

That's my take on it anyhow, for what it's worth.

-----Original Message-----
>From: pming at northwestel.net
>Sent: Apr 9, 2015 11:15 AM
>To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List <pnp at list.powersandperils.org>
>Subject: Re: [PnP] Eloquence revisited
>  I use Eloquence all the time. I generally try and pair a 
>"physical" characteristic with a "mental" characteristic for any 
>rolls I have players make if I can. For example, a "surprise" 
>check would have a base of A+E/2. That would be adjusted by any 
>EL's appropriate to the situation (most likely, the current 
>environment Survival EL).
>  I also sometimes just outright "decide" certain things based on 
>the characters Eloquence. Not often, but sometimes dice rolling 
>isn't necissary or important. For example, a description of 
>talking to an NPC may have me RP'ing him for a minute, then 
>asking the player "What's your characters Eloquence?". Depending 
>on his answer, I'll give him some insight into the NPC..."You are 
>finding it really hard to continue a conversation with this 
>fellow. He takes a long time to finish a sentence, and sometimes 
>he just stops a sentence midway and starts another" (for a PC 
>with decent E and NPC with low E).
>  My daughter is autistic. She'd have a fairly low Eloquence from 
>what I can determine (she's only 5.5 years old), but her 
>Intelligence is definitly higher. We can talk to her and 
>generally converse, but sometimes it takes longer for her to 
>"get" what we're asking her...like it's taking her brain a longer 
>time to parse every concievable meaning of the words we used and 
>come up with the most likely meaning. I see P&P's Eloquence 
>having the same type of general effect on someone's behaviour.
>Paul L. Ming
>Eloquence - A Character’s mental dexterity. It can be viewed as 
>his ability to think quickly. Problems that require a person to 
>be convincing in interpersonal relations, think quickly or 
>respond with mental rapidity require Eloquence.
>This is from the back of the Book 1 v2...
>It seems to me that Eloquence as used in this game is 
>underutilized.  Most people seem to only use it for their 
>influence chance.  Many don't bother to put more than a 1.5 
>multiplier to it since it has so little affect on the game.  But 
>what if there were other ways to use it...?
>Perhaps it could be used to determine a quick reaction...such as 
>to a door you are trying to open 'clicks'...and you attempt to 
>duck out of the way of what's coming...one roll to see if you do 
>react (E or E+Em/2) vs a difficulty factor determined by the GM, 
>and one roll to see if your body can keep up with your mind.
>Perhaps the successful use of E could help a mage keep track of 
>how long his spell might last...instead of them always knowing to 
>the second...especially if he is busy casting a new spell or 
>otherwise distracted by the big monster trying to make a snack of 
>his marrow.
>Perhaps a high E rating could be used to identify an opening in 
>an opponents defenses...and give a chance to exploit that 
>I was wondering if any of you had additional ideas.
>Sent from my iPad
>pnp mailing list
>pnp at list.powersandperils.org

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