[PnP] pnp Digest, Vol 73, Issue 2-We Do have a geologist!

Bryan Tallant grumani at adelphia.net
Wed Jan 5 19:55:09 CET 2011

Hi all,

OK, peanut gallery member checking in...I am a geologist. I have also done
some minor map work for other games. If you want some input on rivers and
mountains based on earth science knowledge, I could help some. I may even be
able to do a little artwork, but that depends on what you are trying to do
in the end--and time I have available.

BTW-I just recently started continuing a campaign from roughly 15 years ago.

Cheers, BT


Sounds like you have a plan.  All the numbers are a bit over my head.
Mainly due to brain power depleted due to illness(cold-eating is tiresome,
thinking is tiresome..geesh).  It sounds like a big job mainly for the
rivers and cities.  If you use one icon as th ecity point and your scale
changes how do you judge it then?  Is sivas 10 miles wide or is Maren 20? 
Same with Rivers.  While its a suggested thing we all know some rivers can
be huge so some might be miles wide while others are only a few hundred
feet.  You'll have to judge those things.

If only you had a artist in teh list to help ya.  I know of someone but
maybe he'll speak up :)

Too bad we don't have a geologist.  Would be neat to do mountain height
scaling.  Based on earth science/tetonics/physics stuff.  I suspect the
Katai inland mountains has to be the tallest based on their location inward.

Might be good to keep a web site with your images.  Can update it nightly
and we coul check rather than getting them in the list if folks don't want

Good luck.

At 10:19 PM 1/2/11, you wrote:
>Well, got the thing scanned, stitched and scaled down to 1 pixel per 2500'
(half mile).  The working photoshop image is 7200 pixels by 5700 pixels,
about 195MB in size.
>I have created a second layer at 75% opacity and have started filling in
the land areas so I can create a land mask, but my small work with the mouse
shows this to be a huge job. :P
>On Jan 2, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Burton Choinski wrote:
>> Okay, decided to try my hand at this, working on the map DEM now.
Currently scanning the map book at 300DPI and stitching the sections in
photoshop.  Once the map is complete I'm going to join all the layers and
resize the whole such that we end up with 1 pixel per half mile (2500 feet
-- keep P&P units clean :}
>> Once that is done I need to make a layer for each type of terrain, though
I really only need 3 real layers: mountains, hills, and everything else.  Oh
yea, and ocean (non-land). Once I have the land mapped out I'm going to make
a greyscale mask based on the terrains. 
>> I can probably produce a straight DEM for terrain, with the assumption of
250' per grey level, but this would only leave about 10 levels for the
flats, about 20 for the hills, and the rest mountains.  With such a flat set
it would be hard to show any meaningful relief in mapping.  The only land
forms that really imply elevation is the mountains, with hills only using
the base elevation but with more ruggedness.  the non-mountians would use 50
elevation units with a cloud fractal base (50-99), the mountains would use
150 (100-249).  Hills would retain the full fractal, badlands would use the
fractal times a fractal (to produce more valleys and spires) and other flat
terrains would have the fractal gaussian blurred to smooth it out.  Lakes
and rivers would reduce the base elevation by HALF, so in relief form they
would appear to be in channels, not just floating on top of the terrain.
>> I'll post summary images (reduced, of course) as it goes along.
>> Perhaps 50 levels for plains, 100 for hills and the full 200 for
>> If I used a straight but it has to be with the assumption that each level
of grey is 250 feet (allows for a maximum mountain height of 50,000).
Levels 0-50 are reserved for the oceans to allow for depth coloring.  51-60
for the low terrains, 51-70 for hills, and 51-250 for mountains.
>> On Dec 30, 2010, at 11:58 PM, Franklin Robertson wrote:
>>> Great to see PnP still up and around!  I had never  forgotten PnP, but
it has been quite a while since I saw an email from the list.  Good to know
we're all still out there.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Adams"
<longshotgm at netzero.com>
>>> To: "The Powers and Perils Mailing List" <pnp at abroere.xs4all.nl>
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 10:41 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [PnP] Map of Perilous Lands using...?
>>>> Nice to see the list still alive.  Been 4 months. Amazing how the last
quarter of the year goes so fraking fast.  Then first 3 quarters are a drag.
>>>> I can't draw worth a flip.  No artistic cell in body.  I could draw as
a kid but not now.  now I have trouble doing a simple circle.
>>>> If it was a make a wish world it would be nice to have the PL world in
a software package.  The full map.  Be able to find a city with a quick
search or a click.  Do distance measurements from Sivas to Katai city in a
flash rather than trying to do manual counts now.  Click on a city get its
info in population, economy and the like from culture info.  Populate the
world with info like that and towns.  But it would be a huge project and
time consuming.  I find the maps wonderful as is but figuring distance for
one of my players to teleport from half a continent away (yeah he can) is a
pain.  Usually off some.
>>>> Digital maps are great and if could somehow etch the hexes like Burton
says into one map would be hard work.  If we even had 10 artists one could
take a province and do the whole world in a month or two.
>>>> But alas its time and work.  I'm happy with anything done.  The problem
is the software.  If one person uses this software to view and use his map
the others need it and that might not work for al folks for computer, skill
and OS reasons.  So it'd have to be some generic platform all can use.
>>>> A decade ago I wrote a program to view, edit and tons of other features
to a world about 500kx500k if I recall.  Figure one space was a city.  Took
only a weekend to do but it was not digital or fancy just a basic low level
>>>> A fun small project would be a site book map set.  Do a full color map
of the Island or Kril or Avalon.  Those would be very useful to folks.
>>>> If only it was back when in college and had such free time...
>>>> I'll be happy with anything made.
>>>> Too all happy New year!
>>>> [Burton: I know I know.  Ship project.  I did get about 12 hours work
on it of and on since September.  But time just gets away and by time you
get engrossed soemthing else comes up.  Grrr.  But 12 hours is better than
nothing.  Sigh.]
>>>> At 03:36 PM 12/30/10, you wrote:
>>>>> The one thing I wish i had, but don't have the software for (or the
time to do it all) is a digital map of the world.  Something that can be
zoomed in to make maps with.  I have sort of faked it with the maps I have
submitted (basically take the hexes, apply some fractal to the lines to
rough them up, apply graphics).  The problem is that each map ends up
unique...I can't easily do a sequence of close maps (like the map book)
since they won't match up.
>>>>> It would be interesting to have a base DEM of the entire world,
perhaps 1 pixel per mile, locked to a line art.  Then when you zoom in you
would need to perhaps fractilize the heights prior to working with it.
>>>>> But having line work that scales properly would be wonderful.  The
problem is, that's a lot of data, unless you want nothing but straight lines
when you zoom in.
>>>>> What is needed is some sort of procedural pre-render that takes
something that won't change, like the mile coordinate of the pixel, and use
that as the random seed, combined with the terrain type (plains, etc) to
generate the actual terrain.  As you zoom in the fractional points around
the main coord are used for the seed, so you could zoom in on a single hex
to render the terrain.  then you take your render and use that as the base
of a program like illustrator to lay out roads, towns or other needed
>>>>> Any mapping project will require a lot of work.  I'm willing to help,
if I have the tools to assist.  Perhaps I'll try scanning in the pages of
the map book such that 1 pixel is 1 mile and see what we would end up with.
If i can stiitch it together, perhaps I can work on the DEM.
>>>>> On Dec 30, 2010, at 8:19 AM, Floyd Resler wrote:
>>>>>> Paul,
>>>>>> You can find a JPEG map  here
/Images/map.jpg). That's one I stitched together years ago.
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Floyd
>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2010, at 4:34 AM, Paul Ming wrote:
>>>>>>> Hiya.
>>>>>>> I was just wondering if anyone has (or would be interested in) a map
of the Perilous Lands in digital format? No, I don't have one yet (well, I
did do most of a single map a loooooong time ago around Marentia:
Sorry for the crappy site...did it over a decade ago and haven't really
touched it sinse...kinda surprised it's still there).
>>>>>>> Anyway, I was thinking about starting up a P&P campaign sometime in
the new year and I'll probably be doing a lot of campaign stuff on computer.
One of the things I'm thinking about doing is maps; world, area, country,
city, etc. I'm just trying to decide on a style for them. Maybe a 'simple'
hex map (using Hexographer), but perhaps something more artistic
(hand-drawn/painted), or maybe using Campaign Cartographer 3 (or some mix
between them all). If anyone had a perference, or particular 'artistic
style' that they think goes well with the flavour of P&P, please post a link
to an example or two. I'm hunting for something myself, but wondering what
others have found particularily good.
>>>>>>> ^_^
>>>>>>> Paul L. Ming
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