[PnP] Help...more ship stuff

Choinski, Burton Burton.Choinski at matrixone.com
Wed Apr 27 21:08:34 CEST 2005

More notes.  Happy reading, Scott. :}












http://nabataea.net/ships.html <http://nabataea.net/ships.html> 


http://www.cedarland.org/ships.html <http://www.cedarland.org/ships.html> 














From: Choinski, Burton [mailto:Burton.Choinski at matrixone.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 2:09 PM
To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List
Subject: RE: [PnP] Help...


Just wanted to make a few additional comments as to construction time.  


1)       build time will also be limited by materials at hand.  Even if it
takes 5 days per boat, if you run out of lumber or have to start
transporting it to the site you will be limited that way.  All construction
times assume all material is at hand, and all gathering times assume that
materials are left at the gather site.  If you have to transport any sort of
distance, figure on 40# per cubic foot ( or 12 board feet 1"x1'x12')

2)       One could DOUBLE the manpower-per-boat-per-day limits by running a
night shift at DOUBLE cost.  Thus, to HALVE the construction time you will
TRIPLE the price.


Notes on logging and board feet:


Rummaging about I found


In there was a note: "...in order to build one galley almost 300 ha of oak
forest and 122 ha of conifer forest, managed with selective cuttings were
cut, while 2-3 ha and 2 ha, respectively were needed if the clear cutting
method was adopted..."


A 20 mile hex is 346 square miles, about 89,717 HA (hectares) if pure,
usable wilderness.  I would assume anywhere from 50k to 80k for forest
hexes, 5k to 10k for plains hexes, 10k to 50k for hills or mountains
(mountains and northern woods having a higher percentage of conifers),


I have no idea what "galley" the source is talking about, but I'm pretty
sure this is 1500-1700's type ships, not ancient world triremes.  Scale as


The managed use allows for perpetual forestry, clear-cutting makes it
effective empty of trees.  Given the degree of elder and sidhe influence in
the world, I doubt clear-cutting is anywhere as common as it was in the real
world (except in those areas that don't give a crap, like Clima or A'Korchi
who are raiding other people's lands.



From: Choinski, Burton [mailto:Burton.Choinski at matrixone.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2005 9:01 AM
To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List
Subject: RE: [PnP] Help...


I have to chime in that I think the "labor cost" method, as used in the
GURPS building construction rules that I adapted for Wout's site is the most
accurate way to figure this out.  It would, as a research project, involve
several steps:

1) Determine the types of laborers required (Foresters, for raw timber,
carpenters and shipwrites (sp?) for construction, sailmakers for rope and
sail, etc).  Determine the basic pay per day of labor.

2) Find some baseline ship for your modeling.  If you have the data for
several ships, all the better as you can make a more accurate model.  

3) For each ship determine the quantity of raw materials (lumber).
Determine time in man-days to produce the raw materials and multiply by the
gatherer cost (foresters). 

4) Determine the number of man-days to build the model of ship, based on
quantity of lumber going into it.  Multiply this by some fudge factor to
reflect shipyard quality and vessel quality (degree of ornamentation or
craftsmanship).  You need to figure this one out, Scott.  Obviously, certain
shipyard cities will get the job done faster.  Raw build cost is labor cost
times number of man-days.  Increase this labor cost by 25% for every factor
of 5 man days to represent overseers and other overhead (i.e. +25% for 5 or
more, +50% for 25 or more, +75% for 125 or more, etc).  

5) Determine man-days to produce the rigging (if any) or ors (carpentry). 

6) Construction time is limited by ship size.  Assume no more than 5 men per
10' length+width+depth (Thus, a 50' long by 10' wide by 10' deep warship is
limited to 35 men of work per day -- you cant pile on a thousand men to
finish it in an hour).  


NOTE: Time in step 6 may need to be tweaked -- the 5 per 10' was just a
number off the top of my head.  You man need to look at historical models to
determine a better number.


-----Original Message----- 
From: Scott Adams [mailto:longshot at cybermax.net
<mailto:longshot at cybermax.net> ] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 9:22 PM 
To: The Powers and Perils Mailing List 
Subject: [PnP] Help... 


Still working on my ship supplement but thinking ahead I could use some
Ship construction shouldn't be a big issue.  The big issue will be costs in 
terms of build costs or final ship buying costs.  

I could tackle it various ways from collection of all parts (anchors, wood, 
ropes, oars, etc.) to form a final price.  Or I could use a basic system 
based on 80-90% of most ships the wood/hull.  Based on a simple area of 
wood or one piece of wood figure out size and then determine a hull prices 
then buy other gear for it.  Etc.  If anyone knows of any good web 
suggestiosn in this area let me know.  or house rules or such.  

I could even decompile a price like price of Trireme and work DOWN from 
there and decompile the price and other aspects from a final price. 


On a SIDE note.  Richard or anyone.. 

Serpent Women - 
1) The regeneration is this regenerted for the next phase the damage or is 
in your gmae over a full phase after or set number of phases?  Just curious.

2) The change from serpent to women is one phase or is there a house rule 
anyone come up with?  Richard? 


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