P&P v2 [Was: Re: Idea bounce]

[Lyndon Alton Liberty]

You tell him Wout !    I am less articulate, but I guess from the response I got from my message, everyone got my point.
(by the way, I've gotten the 44-46 combo twice now, sorry.)    Lyndon

-----Original Message-----
From:   Wout Broere [SMTP:w.broere at CT.TUDELFT.NL]
Sent:   Wednesday, November 12, 1997 12:20 PM
To:     POWERS-AND-PERILS at DUTCGEO.CT.TUDELFT.NL
Subject:        P&P v2 [Was: Re: Idea bounce]

In reply to:
|>I just thought that it might prove easier to get into the new
|>edition if I used one development table (as OP&P does) and place all of the
|>contacts, allies, magic ability, etc. into an advantages section.  I think
|>this would prove closer to the original and easier to make the transition
|>to.
and
>>Sounds like a good idea. I liked the old way....  ;)  come on 44 and then
>>46....  ;) it's a natural event.
>I still wouldn't want the random roll thing.  I can see the
>advantages as something to be chosen--purchased with points from the table
>or the like.  One of the things that proved troublesome with the OP&P rules
>was the random rolls.

The very things that attract me in P&P v1 are
1) the percentile scale attributes and skills, allowing a great
differentiation in characters
2) the flexibility (lack of rules) allowing for example a fighter-magic user
who can develop to a master in both fields over time
3) the randomness in the character generation process

You can understand from this that I am not one of the greatest fans of this
proposal when it is dubbed P&P v2. They are a nice set of rules, I don't
mean that, but in my opinion they are the rules for a completely different
game than the ultra-flexible P&P v1.
The differentiation possible in characteristics etc. leads to about 10
levels, roughly the same as in Runequest or D&D, and the character
generation process is more or less diceless. The system of a trade-off
between different development areas may lead to well-balanced characters,
but also with little differentiation.

In P&P v1 in our group the process of char. generation is somewhat like
this: you decide what kind of character you want to play, for example a
elven fighter-thief. Then you throw the dice for characteristics and see
what is possible. When some key areas are poor there may be some shuffling
or rerolling of characteristics allowed by the DM (normally not more than
two characteristics). After that the die rolls for status, initial increase
and special events are straight forward. So this system allows the desired
character type and weeds out the extremely bad characters.
On the other hand it is highly unlikely that you create exactly the same
character twice, as the dice are unpredictable. The result can be a group
including a complete moron ( no strength, no intelligence, but what a body,
what incredible Ap.) together with a super strong super hero.

Now with P&P v2 I can create the same character over and over again, what is
there to stop me from doing this? Now this can be a good thing, but as said
it is the randomness in P&P v1 I like. To get to the point:

IMO the special events are not things to be chosen, but events the character
and the player have no control over. That would suggest a random choice, id
est a die roll.
Now I have been trying to get that 44-46 combination for years, no luck yet,
but why would that randomness be troublesome?

Now I am at it, another question; why the trouble of getting AH's approval
for the game you have written? I'm not a US citizen or expert in the US
copyright/patent laws, but there has been a rather lengthy discussion on the
subject recently in the rec.games.frp.misc newsgroup, combined with some of
the aspects of copyright laws as I understand them, I see it as follows:

Copyright protects the text, not the system as such, so a particular set of
characteristics named strength, stamina etc is not necessarlily protected.
Patent law could protect that, but p&p v1 is not patented. In your rules the
characteristics  use a different scale than the percentile scale of p&p v1,
so even less similarity. Given there is some similarity between P&P v1 and
P&P v2, but not more so than between say D&D and P&P v2.

You have completely rewritten all text so far, so there is no copyright
issue there either. Leaves the name of the game, so dub it Luck & Lurkers
and you have a completely new game no-one but you holds any rights to. To
generate adventures and background material you will need a lot of
imagination and a group of players. The problem of course is to market it.

So, why the trouble of dubbing this game P&P v2 and getting AH's approval?
Ft